WEBVTT 00:03.329 --> 00:05.273 You're listening to the 140th Wing 00:05.273 --> 00:07.496 podcast . I'm technical Sergeant Chance 00:07.496 --> 00:09.773 Johnson with 140th Wing Public Affairs , 00:09.773 --> 00:11.940 and today I'm speaking with Lieutenant 00:11.940 --> 00:15.920 Colonel Andrew Gold . All right , sir . 00:15.960 --> 00:18.127 Well , thanks for sitting down with us 00:18.127 --> 00:20.016 today . How are you doing ? Great 00:20.016 --> 00:19.559 chance . How about yourself ? I'm not 00:19.559 --> 00:22.479 too bad . Uh , so sir for about was it 00:22.479 --> 00:24.257 about 2 years you served as the 00:24.257 --> 00:26.479 commander of the 138th , right ? That's 00:26.479 --> 00:28.719 that's the 138th Electromagnetic 00:28.719 --> 00:31.159 warfare Squadron . And so your role in 00:31.159 --> 00:33.492 the KOA is different now , right ? Yeah , 00:33.492 --> 00:36.259 uh , so currently I , I serve in , in 00:36.560 --> 00:39.560 two capacities really one as kind of a 00:39.560 --> 00:42.240 DSG for , uh , breeder General 00:42.240 --> 00:46.209 Fessler's staff on the A5 for the 00:46.209 --> 00:49.840 COA , and , uh , that's the director of 00:49.840 --> 00:53.310 strategic plans and then for the wing , 00:53.729 --> 00:57.400 uh , I , uh , am the XP . 00:57.880 --> 01:00.047 Director , so that's , uh , you know , 01:00.047 --> 01:02.102 working for Colonel Couchman and and 01:02.102 --> 01:05.449 Colonel Worrell right now , um , as 01:05.449 --> 01:09.169 primary primarily their uh inspection 01:09.360 --> 01:11.471 uh planner and executor that's coming 01:11.471 --> 01:14.120 up here soon , so those are my two 01:14.120 --> 01:16.231 roles . We don't hear a lot about the 01:16.231 --> 01:18.231 138th just due to the nature of its 01:18.231 --> 01:20.287 mission . What can you tell us about 01:20.287 --> 01:22.430 their capabilities ? Great question . 01:22.529 --> 01:25.580 Yeah , so the 138 is , is first and 01:25.580 --> 01:28.230 foremost full of amazing human beings 01:28.230 --> 01:31.540 that are tremendously capable . Um , 01:32.230 --> 01:36.230 it's such a broad diverse group . 01:37.639 --> 01:39.583 With with such a broad and diverse 01:39.583 --> 01:41.528 experience set , right , that they 01:41.528 --> 01:45.449 bring in uh the the . Units about 01:45.540 --> 01:49.230 80% DSG and you drill status 01:49.230 --> 01:53.160 guardsmen and About 20% full time , so . 01:53.839 --> 01:57.279 The 138 is just full of of innovators , 01:57.400 --> 01:59.879 right ? They , they , uh , whether it's . 02:00.830 --> 02:03.620 Whether it's uh meeting a challenge 02:03.620 --> 02:05.676 operationally or meeting a challenge 02:05.676 --> 02:07.898 from a resource standpoint , there's so 02:07.898 --> 02:10.009 many amazing people there that uh can 02:10.350 --> 02:13.600 think through their . Challenges 02:13.889 --> 02:17.690 to make that unit successful um and 02:17.690 --> 02:19.968 provide combat effects . I , I'm , I'm , 02:20.369 --> 02:22.480 I'll be eternally tied to that unit . 02:22.480 --> 02:24.591 Um , I'm so proud of what they , what 02:24.591 --> 02:27.050 they accomplish . As far as uh 02:28.199 --> 02:30.421 Understanding what the unit does , uh , 02:30.421 --> 02:32.279 at its core , it's a counter 02:32.279 --> 02:34.279 communications capability that they 02:34.279 --> 02:37.039 provide . So , um , if you can't 02:37.039 --> 02:38.983 communicate with your forces , you 02:38.983 --> 02:41.317 cannot command and control them , right ? 02:41.317 --> 02:45.279 So , um we uh take away our 02:45.279 --> 02:48.800 adversaries' ability to communicate uh 02:48.800 --> 02:52.669 through the space domain and um provide 02:52.669 --> 02:55.809 uh . Those effects to uh combatant 02:55.809 --> 02:59.639 commanders and and uh our allies but uh 03:00.130 --> 03:02.019 if you can't communicate , you're 03:02.019 --> 03:03.741 tremendously challenged on the 03:03.741 --> 03:05.919 battlefield and that's that's the uh 03:06.289 --> 03:08.400 effect that we provide . Getting back 03:08.400 --> 03:10.649 to what we are here to talk about today 03:10.649 --> 03:12.649 with uh your deployment to Africa , 03:12.770 --> 03:14.992 let's just start from the beginning and 03:14.992 --> 03:17.048 and let's discuss the challenges you 03:17.048 --> 03:18.992 face during that time as African a 03:18.992 --> 03:21.214 leader , but more importantly , leading 03:21.214 --> 03:20.289 up to it , let's just start there . 03:20.330 --> 03:22.552 What were the challenges you faced even 03:22.552 --> 03:24.719 in preparation ? Yeah , that's a great 03:24.719 --> 03:27.910 question , um . What the uh 03:28.429 --> 03:31.149 what happened out there in just to to 03:31.149 --> 03:33.520 kind of put , put it on the on the 03:33.520 --> 03:35.576 front burner was a coup took place . 03:36.729 --> 03:38.710 But there was a lot of sort of 03:38.710 --> 03:41.270 instability and and uncertainty that 03:41.270 --> 03:43.690 led up to that , right ? So the coup 03:43.690 --> 03:47.179 took place uh actually the the 03:47.179 --> 03:49.500 democratically elected leader , uh , 03:49.509 --> 03:52.899 the president of was detained in his 03:52.899 --> 03:56.429 residence somewhere around July of 2023 , 03:56.550 --> 03:59.889 so summer . We were , uh , the 138th 03:59.889 --> 04:02.056 that was , uh , you know , tagged to , 04:02.056 --> 04:05.179 to go , uh , out there was , uh , in 04:05.179 --> 04:07.380 the , uh , in the throes of its 04:07.380 --> 04:09.436 pre-deployment training , so all the 04:09.436 --> 04:11.547 spin up training and stuff that we do 04:11.547 --> 04:13.713 that any unit does prior to deployment 04:13.713 --> 04:15.824 we were in the midst of all of that , 04:15.824 --> 04:18.540 uh , certification events , etc . and 04:18.540 --> 04:20.707 we were keeping a close eye on on what 04:20.707 --> 04:23.980 was going on out there . But uh we were 04:23.980 --> 04:26.450 scheduled to arrive somewhere around 04:26.450 --> 04:30.170 October in the fall . So when the coup 04:30.170 --> 04:33.739 took place or the the detention of the 04:33.739 --> 04:36.359 president took place in July . Of 04:36.359 --> 04:38.415 course , uh , that , that garnered a 04:38.415 --> 04:40.869 lot of attention , uh , both between us 04:40.869 --> 04:43.320 and our European allies that were also 04:43.320 --> 04:46.970 in the region in in . So 04:47.739 --> 04:51.720 Uh , it started to generate uncertainty 04:51.720 --> 04:53.887 right away , like , hey , are we still 04:53.887 --> 04:56.109 going to go down range to this location 04:56.109 --> 04:58.920 or are we not ? And as a leader , which 04:58.920 --> 05:00.864 I think gets back to your original 05:00.864 --> 05:04.489 question . Uh , it was important . To 05:04.940 --> 05:06.884 keep everybody focused . It really 05:06.884 --> 05:10.239 doesn't matter . Uh , where , where 05:10.239 --> 05:12.239 we're tasked to go , we're gonna be 05:12.239 --> 05:14.480 ready to execute and provide the 05:14.480 --> 05:16.591 effects that we advertise that we can 05:16.591 --> 05:18.313 provide regardless of what the 05:18.313 --> 05:20.424 decisions that were , were made , but 05:20.424 --> 05:22.591 it did , uh , it did catch everybody's 05:22.591 --> 05:25.079 attention for , for a good bit as we 05:25.079 --> 05:27.390 were preparing to go and , and , uh , 05:27.690 --> 05:29.801 yeah , we worked our way through that 05:29.801 --> 05:31.579 and things steadily became more 05:31.579 --> 05:34.239 uncertain um as things deteriorated and 05:34.239 --> 05:36.480 um , yeah , it created quite the 05:36.480 --> 05:40.149 challenge and we . We still Uh , ended 05:40.149 --> 05:42.869 up deploying to that location and um . 05:43.839 --> 05:45.880 Chance from my perspective , we're 05:45.880 --> 05:49.200 we're we're trained to run toward 05:49.200 --> 05:51.829 uncertainty . Once we were in theater , 05:52.399 --> 05:55.079 the uh constraints with airlift became 05:55.079 --> 05:58.160 clear , right ? The unit that we were 05:58.160 --> 06:00.216 relieving was having trouble getting 06:00.216 --> 06:04.149 out , um . And that was 06:04.149 --> 06:06.070 for a number of factors that the 06:06.070 --> 06:09.390 uncertainty surrounding the coup uh 06:09.390 --> 06:12.750 certainly one and then in that uh area 06:12.750 --> 06:16.149 of the world , um , of course , Russia 06:16.149 --> 06:18.260 and Ukraine were kicking off in a big 06:18.260 --> 06:21.709 way , right ? So that uh that uh was a 06:21.709 --> 06:24.059 demand signal on airlift and air flow . 06:24.380 --> 06:26.670 So , uh , you had all of those things 06:26.670 --> 06:28.940 going on in UCon . And we had people 06:28.940 --> 06:31.273 trying to ingress and egress in Africom , 06:31.459 --> 06:33.626 and a lot of those resources are , are 06:33.626 --> 06:35.570 shared , you know , so it was , it 06:35.570 --> 06:37.579 created , it created some uh some 06:37.579 --> 06:39.540 challenges for us , but we worked 06:39.540 --> 06:41.707 through them . So once you get there , 06:41.730 --> 06:43.841 what's , you know , because and you , 06:43.841 --> 06:46.570 you mentioned a coup , and that from 06:46.570 --> 06:48.514 what I remember from your original 06:48.514 --> 06:50.681 brief , that's kind of a word that was 06:50.681 --> 06:53.014 kind of there was hesitancy to use that , 06:53.014 --> 06:55.126 right ? Yeah , so that that's a great 06:55.126 --> 06:58.890 point . So when uh the , the detention 06:58.890 --> 07:01.057 of the president originally happened . 07:01.480 --> 07:04.290 The United States , uh , the 07:04.290 --> 07:06.489 administration that was in at the time 07:06.489 --> 07:09.209 classified the event as a challenge to 07:09.209 --> 07:11.799 democratic order and not a coup 07:11.799 --> 07:15.250 initially . The reason why that is 07:15.250 --> 07:18.700 significant is because uh when a coup 07:18.700 --> 07:22.440 is declared officially , it knocks over 07:22.809 --> 07:26.559 uh some diplomatic and security 07:26.809 --> 07:30.029 implications , right ? So , Um , 07:30.239 --> 07:34.160 if we had a declaration of a coup right 07:34.160 --> 07:37.480 out of the gate , um , it would have 07:37.480 --> 07:40.839 affected , uh , some of the finances 07:40.839 --> 07:43.720 between the United States and and some 07:43.720 --> 07:45.942 of the security cooperation between the 07:45.942 --> 07:48.239 United States and and the 07:48.239 --> 07:50.480 administration at the time was not 07:50.480 --> 07:53.350 ready to have those 2nd and 3rd order 07:53.350 --> 07:55.072 effects take place . So it was 07:55.072 --> 07:56.961 originally a CDO , a challenge to 07:56.961 --> 07:59.959 democratic order . Our European uh 08:00.239 --> 08:03.170 partners in the region . Made a coup 08:03.170 --> 08:05.869 declaration , uh , that was , uh , 08:05.929 --> 08:08.151 timed differently than ours and , and , 08:08.151 --> 08:10.600 um , they had , I'm , I'm sure their , 08:10.649 --> 08:12.929 their diplomatic and military reasons 08:12.929 --> 08:15.119 for doing so . Uh , what did you see 08:15.119 --> 08:16.950 shift once that declaration was 08:16.950 --> 08:19.779 actually made ? Uh , 08:20.899 --> 08:23.010 there was , uh , definitely an effect 08:23.010 --> 08:25.489 on , on , uh , the security cooperation . 08:25.660 --> 08:27.820 So , uh , some of the things that we 08:27.820 --> 08:30.899 were cooperating with the Nigerians on , 08:31.380 --> 08:33.859 uh , slowed down and some of it was 08:33.859 --> 08:36.299 paused . Um , there was an effect on , 08:36.309 --> 08:40.208 on airflow into and out of , of 08:40.208 --> 08:42.809 the country , which uh has its own set 08:42.809 --> 08:45.158 of challenges with respect to , uh , 08:45.408 --> 08:47.464 supply and personnel and things like 08:47.464 --> 08:49.568 that . So it was you , you saw a 08:49.568 --> 08:53.440 degradation in , um . The ability 08:53.440 --> 08:56.599 to get uh personnel and and resources 08:56.599 --> 08:59.320 moved in and out of the AOR , OK . And 08:59.320 --> 09:01.520 then , so how did this affect you all 09:01.520 --> 09:03.798 directly on , on maybe on a , you know , 09:03.798 --> 09:05.798 because your team is a fairly small 09:05.798 --> 09:08.020 team , 17 , right ? That's right , um , 09:08.020 --> 09:10.919 so I , you could probably see uh on an 09:10.919 --> 09:13.289 individual level and on a group level 09:13.640 --> 09:15.696 the effect and what did you start to 09:15.696 --> 09:18.880 see happening ? I mean some of the uh 09:18.880 --> 09:22.700 the Again , with without being able to 09:22.700 --> 09:26.539 get uh a reliable and consistent 09:26.820 --> 09:30.450 logistics support function going , uh , 09:30.619 --> 09:34.020 you saw , uh , the , the basics start 09:34.020 --> 09:36.131 to erode , which is , you know , mail 09:36.131 --> 09:38.820 coming in and out , uh , food delivery 09:39.219 --> 09:41.275 to , to , you know , for some things 09:41.275 --> 09:44.609 was , was , uh , being affected and , 09:44.619 --> 09:46.563 uh , it wasn't just with airlift , 09:46.563 --> 09:48.729 right ? Some of the uh the overland 09:48.729 --> 09:51.539 trucking . A supply that was going in 09:51.539 --> 09:54.159 and out of the air base was also being 09:54.159 --> 09:57.599 affected , so you see a You know , 09:58.200 --> 10:00.719 variations in in food and supply in the 10:00.719 --> 10:03.270 chow hall , for example , and the big 10:03.270 --> 10:05.440 one from a like a personal and morale 10:05.440 --> 10:07.551 standpoint was the was the mail , the 10:07.551 --> 10:09.607 boxes from home , things like that , 10:09.607 --> 10:13.109 that really began to have an impact , 10:13.359 --> 10:15.809 you know , on personnel . Keep in mind 10:15.809 --> 10:17.865 that , you know , when we arrived in 10:17.865 --> 10:19.976 country it was October , right ? So . 10:19.989 --> 10:21.933 Uh , you know , you're going to be 10:21.933 --> 10:24.320 there through all of the major US 10:24.320 --> 10:26.580 holidays , yeah , Thanksgiving , 10:26.869 --> 10:29.036 Christmas , New Year's , etc . right ? 10:29.036 --> 10:31.190 So , uh , when those things , you're 10:31.190 --> 10:33.739 already , you know , missing home , uh , 10:34.190 --> 10:36.190 when , when you're not getting your 10:36.190 --> 10:39.179 boxes from home that , uh , You know , 10:39.359 --> 10:41.526 it , it landed tough on some folks out 10:41.526 --> 10:43.940 there . So being in a leadership 10:43.940 --> 10:45.662 position that you were in as a 10:45.662 --> 10:48.059 commander , um , I think that sometimes 10:48.059 --> 10:50.289 ideally , you know , we'd like to think 10:50.289 --> 10:52.400 that these are the sequence of events 10:52.400 --> 10:54.678 that are gonna happen on this timeline , 10:54.678 --> 10:56.956 and we're gonna do this based on these , 10:56.956 --> 10:59.067 uh , certain variables , but you were 10:59.067 --> 11:01.233 being faced , you know , things were , 11:01.233 --> 11:03.067 it seemed like they were in flux 11:03.067 --> 11:05.233 constantly things were changing , uh , 11:05.233 --> 11:07.400 rapidly and , you know , we're talking 11:07.400 --> 11:07.099 about uncertainty that's kind of the 11:07.109 --> 11:09.330 theme of this discussion . So how did 11:09.330 --> 11:11.552 you approach that ? What was , what was 11:11.552 --> 11:13.719 the way that you , that you dealt with 11:13.719 --> 11:15.830 this ? How did you , um , how did you 11:15.830 --> 11:18.090 deal with or work with your , your team 11:18.090 --> 11:20.130 that was maybe looking to you for 11:20.130 --> 11:22.210 answers , um , and , and how did you 11:22.210 --> 11:24.570 work through that ? Yeah , great 11:24.570 --> 11:27.210 question . It was , uh , one , I was 11:27.210 --> 11:29.543 pretty transparent and honest with them , 11:29.549 --> 11:32.729 um , which is kind of like my normal MO , 11:32.849 --> 11:35.016 you know , I , I don't try to to paint 11:35.016 --> 11:38.330 a rosy picture , um , but I do try to 11:38.330 --> 11:40.690 offer some perspective to keep them 11:40.690 --> 11:43.450 focused , right ? So while it's a , uh . 11:44.150 --> 11:47.609 Uh , you know , While it's , uh , 11:48.140 --> 11:51.210 you say like disappointing when you're 11:51.210 --> 11:53.679 not getting the sort of nice to haves 11:53.679 --> 11:57.150 from a home , um . I also try to keep 11:57.150 --> 11:59.150 things in perspective again , being 11:59.150 --> 12:01.190 sort of raised in a in a marine's 12:01.190 --> 12:03.357 mindset , it's like , hey , you know , 12:03.357 --> 12:05.468 we're not currently getting shot at , 12:05.468 --> 12:07.634 right ? So yeah , it's it's not , it's 12:07.634 --> 12:10.789 not uh optimal to not be receiving 12:10.789 --> 12:13.039 packages or or getting resupply 12:13.039 --> 12:16.950 consistently , but uh we need to stay 12:16.950 --> 12:18.820 focused on what we provide 12:18.820 --> 12:20.820 operationally . We need to keep the 12:20.820 --> 12:22.820 blade sharp , right ? And and can't 12:22.820 --> 12:24.764 allow these challenges to become a 12:24.764 --> 12:27.539 distraction . Uh , insofar that it 12:27.539 --> 12:29.650 would , uh , detract from our ability 12:29.650 --> 12:31.706 to , to remain focused on what we're 12:31.706 --> 12:33.739 out there to provide . And so as a 12:33.739 --> 12:36.250 leader , uh , kind of did two things . 12:36.340 --> 12:38.562 One , acknowledge that people are being 12:38.562 --> 12:40.618 affected , right ? You know , people 12:40.618 --> 12:44.340 are , are , are upset and , uh . And um 12:44.340 --> 12:46.659 disappointed at times . Once we 12:46.659 --> 12:50.140 acknowledge that . Having them focus on 12:50.140 --> 12:52.150 what's important , which is , uh , 12:52.340 --> 12:54.284 providing those combat effects and 12:54.284 --> 12:56.229 taking care of each other . That's 12:56.229 --> 12:58.340 really , that's really my what my day 12:58.340 --> 13:00.562 to day was like out there as a leader . 13:01.039 --> 13:04.049 And so , you know , you , one thing 13:04.049 --> 13:06.160 that I , I remember you mentioning in 13:06.160 --> 13:08.382 the brief that you gave us during April 13:08.382 --> 13:10.605 Drill is that you started to pick up on 13:10.605 --> 13:13.520 a lot of cues and body language , um , 13:13.929 --> 13:16.419 even like peripherally . And , and what , 13:16.599 --> 13:18.909 you know , I think that that's a very 13:19.359 --> 13:22.469 valuable tool to to have that sort of 13:22.760 --> 13:25.640 empathetic intuitive nature where you 13:25.640 --> 13:28.719 just very , you know , in tune to the 13:28.719 --> 13:30.775 different body languages that people 13:30.775 --> 13:32.997 were presenting or or how did you , how 13:32.997 --> 13:35.108 did you go about that ? Yeah , yeah , 13:35.108 --> 13:37.108 good question , Chance . I mean , I 13:37.108 --> 13:39.330 think there's a time where You're going 13:39.330 --> 13:42.130 to have to say , hey , acknowledge that 13:42.140 --> 13:44.729 that that we have to this up and the 13:45.400 --> 13:47.622 situation is non-optimal , right ? Like 13:47.622 --> 13:49.799 and and so that sort of transparent , 13:50.260 --> 13:54.140 uh , transparent honesty , uh , is , is 13:54.140 --> 13:56.859 a necessity , but , uh , in the same 13:56.859 --> 14:00.700 vein , I think a good leader when able 14:00.700 --> 14:02.700 takes the time to really know their 14:02.700 --> 14:05.140 people at a at a level commensurate 14:05.140 --> 14:07.549 with with . You know , uh , what the 14:07.549 --> 14:09.716 situation allows , right ? If , if for 14:09.716 --> 14:12.400 me having such a small team out there 14:12.400 --> 14:15.070 of , of , you know , 16 plus me , um , 14:15.150 --> 14:18.780 I was able to get to know , uh , 14:18.789 --> 14:21.940 each individual at a fairly deep level , 14:22.150 --> 14:24.270 right ? So that allowed me to do as a 14:24.270 --> 14:27.840 leader is to . Pick up on cues 14:28.260 --> 14:31.940 uh like when when personnel were being 14:31.940 --> 14:34.162 affected , right ? If you if you get to 14:34.162 --> 14:36.460 know somebody over time and and and to 14:36.460 --> 14:38.700 a certain level , they'll have tells , 14:38.770 --> 14:40.826 right ? You can , you can tell about 14:40.826 --> 14:43.359 their body language or their tone or uh 14:43.619 --> 14:45.730 the way they're they're treating each 14:45.730 --> 14:48.450 other , um , I think I mentioned before , 14:48.900 --> 14:51.659 um . A lot of times , uh , people 14:51.659 --> 14:53.715 aren't gonna run up to the commander 14:53.715 --> 14:56.020 and say XYZ things , but if you're 14:56.020 --> 14:57.909 paying close attention to the way 14:57.909 --> 14:59.909 they're treating each other and the 14:59.909 --> 15:02.020 words they're using with each other , 15:02.020 --> 15:04.076 you can pick up on , uh , you know , 15:04.076 --> 15:06.076 maybe when somebody's resilience is 15:06.076 --> 15:07.909 being chipped away at . So I , I 15:07.909 --> 15:11.059 utilize that as a tool to , um , you 15:11.059 --> 15:13.115 know , the basic sense is you get to 15:13.115 --> 15:15.380 know your people and , um , yeah , 15:15.460 --> 15:18.520 there were times where , where , uh . I 15:18.520 --> 15:22.320 delivered news uh quite a bit that was 15:22.320 --> 15:25.710 unpopular and uh . Um , but it was just 15:25.710 --> 15:27.821 the , the straight truth , especially 15:27.821 --> 15:29.960 when it came to uncertainty and , and 15:29.960 --> 15:32.182 when we're going to actually get out of 15:32.182 --> 15:34.349 there to get get home , you know . But 15:34.349 --> 15:38.340 yeah , I , I Knowing my people , um , I 15:38.340 --> 15:40.562 had the opportunity to get to know them 15:40.562 --> 15:43.750 at a deep level and it was uh It was um 15:43.950 --> 15:47.070 advantageous as we as things began to 15:47.070 --> 15:49.429 degrade . Yeah , so I mean , and you 15:49.429 --> 15:51.540 talk about , you know , sometimes you 15:51.540 --> 15:53.762 do have to just acknowledge that like , 15:53.762 --> 15:55.873 yeah , we got to embrace the and just 15:55.873 --> 15:57.985 keep pushing and you know , just have 15:57.985 --> 15:59.985 to endure that . But in those maybe 15:59.985 --> 16:02.349 moments of downtime as a commander 16:02.349 --> 16:04.849 would or just a leader in general , uh , 16:04.950 --> 16:07.117 it , it sounds like you're saying that 16:07.117 --> 16:09.283 it would . It's , it's very beneficial 16:09.283 --> 16:11.450 to get to know people on an individual 16:11.450 --> 16:13.506 level because people aren't one size 16:13.506 --> 16:15.672 fits all as far as their personalities 16:15.672 --> 16:17.783 and and what motivates them and , and 16:17.783 --> 16:19.894 how they operate . So that when , you 16:19.894 --> 16:22.117 know , it does hit the fan . You know , 16:22.117 --> 16:24.172 on , on a more granular level how to 16:24.172 --> 16:26.283 how to approach them , it sounds like 16:26.283 --> 16:28.340 absolutely if if you can , right ? I 16:28.340 --> 16:31.219 mean , I , I try to put myself in , in 16:31.219 --> 16:33.580 the shoes of , of those that I work for 16:33.580 --> 16:35.580 quite a bit , right ? Like the wing 16:35.580 --> 16:38.299 commanders got 1,000+ people that he or 16:38.299 --> 16:40.690 she is responsible for , right ? So 16:40.690 --> 16:43.739 it's , it's really , uh , would be a 16:43.739 --> 16:45.906 difficult just from a time perspective 16:45.906 --> 16:48.072 to get each get to know each person at 16:48.072 --> 16:50.299 a granular level , right ? But I think 16:50.840 --> 16:53.118 Uh , when you're leading at that level , 16:53.118 --> 16:55.739 you're relying on your SELs , your 16:55.739 --> 16:58.219 first sergeants , your commanders to , 16:58.440 --> 17:00.662 to that do have the time that should be 17:00.662 --> 17:02.718 taking the time to get to know folks 17:02.718 --> 17:04.940 and then to sort of message that upward 17:04.940 --> 17:07.107 like , hey , here's the the the tone , 17:07.107 --> 17:09.329 the temperature of a group this large . 17:09.329 --> 17:11.823 But when you are leading at say a 17:11.823 --> 17:14.734 flight level or you're an NCOIC or or 17:14.734 --> 17:17.534 you're a flight commander , you should 17:17.534 --> 17:20.173 take the time if you have the ability 17:20.173 --> 17:22.395 to get to know the smaller footprint of 17:22.395 --> 17:24.617 folks to a more granular level . That's 17:24.617 --> 17:27.928 going to allow you to Uh , really get 17:27.928 --> 17:31.019 the pulse of , of what your unit , uh , 17:31.048 --> 17:33.048 is going through at the time and it 17:33.048 --> 17:35.048 allows you to message to leadership 17:35.048 --> 17:37.104 above you like hey , here's , here's 17:37.104 --> 17:39.104 kind of where we're at . Here's the 17:39.104 --> 17:41.437 tone and temperature of things and , um , 17:41.437 --> 17:44.529 yeah , out there , um , if I , if I was 17:44.529 --> 17:48.288 unaware holistically um of what the 17:48.288 --> 17:50.489 unit was going through , I wouldn't be 17:50.489 --> 17:54.000 able to sort of . Keep them focused on . 17:55.010 --> 17:57.066 Providing combat effects and getting 17:57.066 --> 17:59.849 after the mission , right ? So , um , I 17:59.849 --> 18:01.960 think it's part of being an effective 18:01.960 --> 18:03.960 leader , it's getting to know those 18:03.960 --> 18:06.071 around you . And so we've established 18:06.071 --> 18:08.071 that , you know , you were , it was 18:08.071 --> 18:10.293 very important to you to make sure that 18:10.293 --> 18:12.349 your team was taken care of and that 18:12.349 --> 18:14.460 you were dealing with them as much as 18:14.460 --> 18:16.349 you could individually and . Uh , 18:16.349 --> 18:18.405 staying in tune to those tales , but 18:18.405 --> 18:20.738 what about you personally ? Uh , I mean , 18:20.738 --> 18:22.738 you , you weren't exempt from those 18:22.738 --> 18:25.619 same frustrations and , and morale 18:25.619 --> 18:27.952 killers . So how did you deal with that ? 18:27.979 --> 18:30.201 Like how did you , you know , what were 18:30.201 --> 18:32.930 the difficult kind of things you had to 18:32.930 --> 18:35.097 conversations that you had had to have 18:35.097 --> 18:37.263 with your family , and how did you get 18:37.263 --> 18:39.374 through that ? Sure , yeah , that's , 18:39.374 --> 18:39.109 uh , that's a great question . 18:39.969 --> 18:42.136 Everything . You know , everything was 18:42.136 --> 18:44.191 happening to us as a group , right ? 18:44.191 --> 18:46.247 And , and that's going to land on on 18:46.247 --> 18:48.413 individuals differently , but I wasn't 18:48.413 --> 18:50.636 immune from it , as you mentioned , you 18:50.636 --> 18:53.150 know , I , I , uh . I had , uh , times 18:53.150 --> 18:55.989 where , you know , I , I , I missed 18:55.989 --> 18:58.589 home and and would like , would like to 18:58.589 --> 19:00.700 have a little bit more certainty of , 19:00.700 --> 19:04.000 of when we might be relieved , um , but 19:04.150 --> 19:07.050 you know , Just , just maintaining 19:07.050 --> 19:09.449 perspective , right ? Hey , uh , yeah , 19:09.540 --> 19:12.130 this is , this is not optimal , but it 19:12.130 --> 19:14.819 could be easily way worse , right ? It 19:14.819 --> 19:18.160 is kind of the self talk that I used um 19:18.160 --> 19:21.369 outside of that , um , being a 19:21.369 --> 19:24.729 commander or an SCL or for sergeant can 19:24.729 --> 19:27.689 sometimes be a , uh , like feel like an 19:27.689 --> 19:30.349 island . Uh , but it doesn't have to be , 19:30.660 --> 19:33.579 um , and for myself , um , I leaned on 19:33.579 --> 19:35.746 some of the other commanders that were 19:35.746 --> 19:37.690 out there and , and , and that was 19:37.690 --> 19:39.746 reciprocal , right ? I , I was there 19:39.746 --> 19:42.079 for them , uh , when , when they needed , 19:42.079 --> 19:44.246 uh , to just have a , you know , a , a 19:44.246 --> 19:46.412 frank discussion on , on how they were 19:46.412 --> 19:48.523 dealing with their own . Challenges . 19:48.523 --> 19:50.523 Uh , so those are kind of the tools 19:50.523 --> 19:50.180 that I used , you know , other 19:50.180 --> 19:53.069 commanders , um , SELs , you know , 19:53.219 --> 19:57.219 things like that , um . Just to power 19:57.219 --> 20:00.510 through uh some of the , if you will , 20:00.760 --> 20:03.439 you know , um , that's the resources 20:03.439 --> 20:07.030 that we had . So and maybe kind of 20:07.030 --> 20:10.270 speaking to folks that maybe you know 20:10.270 --> 20:12.381 in the future might have to deal with 20:12.381 --> 20:14.437 this , whether it be in a leadership 20:14.437 --> 20:16.548 position or just deploying and facing 20:16.548 --> 20:18.437 uncertainty in general and having 20:18.437 --> 20:20.603 conversations with their family . what 20:20.603 --> 20:22.770 were would you would you mind speaking 20:22.770 --> 20:22.430 to , you know , when you spoke with 20:22.430 --> 20:24.949 your wife and your kids , how did you 20:24.949 --> 20:27.880 communicate to them , you know , the , 20:27.910 --> 20:30.132 the fact that this was just a difficult 20:30.132 --> 20:32.132 situation that that you guys had to 20:32.150 --> 20:35.630 work through together ? Sure . Again , 20:36.300 --> 20:38.979 everyone's , uh , situation with their 20:38.979 --> 20:42.969 families is so unique and , and , uh , 20:43.579 --> 20:45.635 individualistic , right ? You know , 20:45.635 --> 20:48.020 you have in my case I've been married 20:48.020 --> 20:52.020 for well over 20 years and my 20:52.020 --> 20:54.242 wife's also prior military , right ? So 20:54.242 --> 20:57.020 there's an understanding there and uh a 20:57.020 --> 20:59.131 huge amount of foundation that's been 20:59.140 --> 21:02.439 been laid . Um , so the way I approach 21:02.439 --> 21:04.661 that is going to be very different than 21:04.661 --> 21:06.606 somebody who's like , you know , 2 21:06.606 --> 21:08.828 years in the military , maybe they're , 21:08.828 --> 21:10.995 they're in their early 20s and they've 21:10.995 --> 21:13.050 been married for 9 months . That's a 21:13.050 --> 21:15.050 completely different , uh , sort of 21:15.050 --> 21:17.119 challenge that , um , but . 21:18.540 --> 21:22.180 My my discussions with the 21:22.180 --> 21:24.500 group sort of centered around what they 21:24.500 --> 21:26.859 needed , right ? So , um , I sat down 21:26.859 --> 21:29.930 with with the the deployment team and 21:29.930 --> 21:32.050 said , hey , you know , you know your 21:32.089 --> 21:34.033 your family situation best whether 21:34.033 --> 21:35.922 you're newly married or you're or 21:35.922 --> 21:37.978 you're having a deal with mom or dad 21:37.978 --> 21:40.256 back home or whatever the situation is , 21:40.256 --> 21:42.219 um , I have tremendous respect for 21:42.219 --> 21:45.050 people on a human level and , and , and 21:45.050 --> 21:46.606 the fact that they're adult 21:46.606 --> 21:50.380 professionals . So my Um , my , 21:50.430 --> 21:53.510 uh , plan to , to , to support them is , 21:53.550 --> 21:56.030 is basically to to to be there for them 21:56.030 --> 21:58.030 and have them let me know what they 21:58.030 --> 22:00.363 need , right ? Do you , do you , do you , 22:00.363 --> 22:02.530 do you want a phone call home ? I'd be 22:02.530 --> 22:04.641 happy to talk to , uh , your families 22:04.641 --> 22:06.586 and , and sort of run down what we 22:06.586 --> 22:08.586 could , or , you know , uh , do you 22:08.586 --> 22:10.586 want resources from the wing or the 22:10.586 --> 22:12.641 state to contact your family because 22:12.641 --> 22:14.752 everyone , everyone's going to have a 22:14.752 --> 22:14.150 unique situation back home and they're 22:14.150 --> 22:16.261 all managing it differently , right ? 22:16.261 --> 22:17.983 But just making sure that they 22:17.983 --> 22:20.150 understand . That they're supported by 22:20.150 --> 22:22.800 me on the ground by the wing commander 22:22.800 --> 22:24.729 and state leadership and tag and 22:24.729 --> 22:26.729 everyone here , right , that that 22:26.729 --> 22:29.489 support was available uh that I I 22:29.489 --> 22:32.290 messaged that uh pretty frequently , 22:32.310 --> 22:34.366 especially as things became more and 22:34.366 --> 22:36.719 more uncertain and uh we were seeing 22:37.010 --> 22:39.319 families , uh , you know , 22:41.329 --> 22:43.849 giving , giving signs that the 22:43.849 --> 22:45.960 displaying signs that there there may 22:45.960 --> 22:49.880 be uh issues . And I'm sure the the J9 22:49.880 --> 22:51.991 was also probably a good resource for 22:51.991 --> 22:55.520 that . Absolutely , yeah , J9 um and 22:55.520 --> 22:57.631 again I was having conversations back 22:57.631 --> 22:59.510 here with a group command , wing 22:59.510 --> 23:02.719 command , etc . and uh yeah , the 23:02.719 --> 23:04.719 resources that J9 has available are 23:04.719 --> 23:07.949 incredible and uh made sure that our 23:08.000 --> 23:10.167 our folks that were deployed downrange 23:10.167 --> 23:12.167 understood that not only that's not 23:12.167 --> 23:14.389 only for them , that's for their family 23:14.389 --> 23:16.589 members , uh , so . Yeah , those are 23:16.589 --> 23:18.790 the tools in the toolbox that we're 23:18.790 --> 23:20.910 accessing . Do you want to talk about 23:21.239 --> 23:22.961 getting out of country and the 23:22.961 --> 23:25.183 challenges you faced with that ? Sure , 23:25.183 --> 23:27.406 yeah , um , getting out of country , uh 23:27.406 --> 23:29.790 became uh interesting really quickly . 23:29.959 --> 23:33.579 So , um , The the 23:33.579 --> 23:35.819 airflow as as I mentioned was was uh 23:35.819 --> 23:38.770 becoming constrained and um 23:39.339 --> 23:43.260 there was uh an appetite within the 23:43.260 --> 23:46.170 uh expeditionary air wing and the air 23:46.170 --> 23:49.170 expeditionary group to start looking at 23:49.609 --> 23:53.430 um . Sort of innovative ways to to to 23:53.430 --> 23:56.569 egress uh folks out of the country . 23:57.030 --> 24:00.469 Um , uh , I was asked if , if I was 24:00.469 --> 24:02.869 interested in , in , um , trying to 24:02.869 --> 24:06.790 help solve that problem . And , um , of 24:06.790 --> 24:10.060 course , again , I think guardsmen , uh , 24:10.109 --> 24:13.810 just by their nature , uh are are sort 24:13.810 --> 24:17.430 of uh equipped to to solve problems in 24:17.430 --> 24:20.750 an innovative way , um , not . Not to , 24:20.910 --> 24:23.021 to , uh , you know , knock our active 24:23.021 --> 24:25.188 duty brothers and sisters , but , uh , 24:25.188 --> 24:27.410 guardsmen , uh , you know , bring a lot 24:27.410 --> 24:29.577 of that sort of . Yeah , it's a lot of 24:29.577 --> 24:32.900 the kind of . Yeah , I mean we have you 24:32.900 --> 24:35.067 asked about the 138 earlier and I sort 24:35.067 --> 24:37.289 of touched on it , but you know there's 24:37.289 --> 24:39.511 there's folks over there that are are . 24:39.511 --> 24:41.511 Potato farmers , there's folks over 24:41.511 --> 24:43.511 there that have uh developed uh the 24:43.511 --> 24:46.089 software and hardware for complex , uh , 24:46.290 --> 24:48.512 highly technical weapon systems that we 24:48.512 --> 24:50.512 employ . So the gradients massive , 24:50.512 --> 24:53.780 right ? So , uh , on a deployment , um , 24:53.930 --> 24:55.930 when you're faced with challenges , 24:55.930 --> 24:57.652 they , they bring all of those 24:57.652 --> 24:59.708 strengths uh to problem solving . So 24:59.708 --> 25:02.890 when we started to try to innovate our 25:02.890 --> 25:06.160 way through the logistics challenge of 25:06.160 --> 25:08.449 getting out of there . Um , the group 25:08.449 --> 25:10.290 in the wing asked if I would be 25:10.290 --> 25:12.234 interested and our people would be 25:12.234 --> 25:14.457 interested in trying to , to figure out 25:14.457 --> 25:16.679 a way to to get out of there that might 25:16.679 --> 25:18.901 be a little nonstandard . And , uh , in 25:18.901 --> 25:21.179 the end , that's what we executed . We , 25:21.179 --> 25:24.680 uh , we were the only group , um , 25:25.449 --> 25:28.729 a large group of DOD personnel that , 25:28.739 --> 25:32.349 uh , Left , uh , uh , 25:33.540 --> 25:36.579 um , through a commercial means . 25:37.410 --> 25:40.109 Uh , there were 1 Z2Z's contractors , 25:40.290 --> 25:42.290 uh , things of that nature that had 25:42.290 --> 25:44.346 gone that way , but we were the only 25:44.346 --> 25:46.401 large group of , uh , DOD folks that 25:46.401 --> 25:48.623 had gotten in and out that way that I'm 25:48.623 --> 25:51.800 aware of . Um , and yeah , we , we , uh , 25:51.890 --> 25:54.650 ended up taking one reservist and one , 25:55.060 --> 25:57.489 active duty member with us , uh , as 25:57.489 --> 25:59.378 well . So because you had to send 25:59.378 --> 26:01.545 somebody back from your team , right ? 26:01.545 --> 26:03.433 And you got gained an active duty 26:03.433 --> 26:05.600 member from that . We , uh , we sent , 26:05.600 --> 26:08.880 uh , two guardsmen back , um . And then , 26:09.050 --> 26:12.050 uh , ended up just by happenstance 26:12.050 --> 26:14.729 picking up a reservist and an active 26:14.729 --> 26:16.840 duty member that needed to get out of 26:16.840 --> 26:19.770 the country in a , in a time 26:19.770 --> 26:22.849 constrained , uh , events that were 26:22.849 --> 26:26.459 going on back home . So I , I , you 26:26.459 --> 26:28.930 know , integrated them into our our 26:28.930 --> 26:30.969 team and so we went , uh , we were 26:30.969 --> 26:33.949 initially 17 , we went down to 15 . And 26:33.949 --> 26:36.171 then back up to 17 with the addition of 26:36.171 --> 26:38.227 the reservist and the uh active duty 26:38.227 --> 26:40.338 service member again kind of with the 26:40.338 --> 26:42.449 uncertainty and that affecting morale 26:42.449 --> 26:44.505 it you it was it added an additional 26:44.505 --> 26:46.910 month , right ? It did OK , but you 26:46.910 --> 26:49.132 guys didn't know that it was only gonna 26:49.132 --> 26:51.354 be a month . We had no idea . Yeah , it 26:51.354 --> 26:51.109 could have been any length of time . 26:51.229 --> 26:53.229 That's right . And that's where the 26:53.229 --> 26:55.507 uncertainty comes in , right ? So , uh , 26:55.507 --> 26:57.729 it was initially , uh , you know , uh , 26:57.729 --> 26:59.896 scheduled to be a 6 month deployment , 27:00.010 --> 27:03.949 um . And uh we we started around the 27:03.949 --> 27:07.359 corner on uh you know uh month 5 and 27:07.359 --> 27:10.719 then you know month 5.5 and it became 27:10.719 --> 27:13.319 clear that uh we were not going to go 27:13.319 --> 27:16.310 home on time um 27:16.520 --> 27:19.430 and and to your point , the , uh , 27:19.760 --> 27:22.680 significance of that is the unknown , 27:22.920 --> 27:25.142 right ? Um , if I tell you you're gonna 27:25.142 --> 27:28.359 be uh deployed for X amount of time and 27:28.359 --> 27:30.415 uh I tell you it's gonna be extended 27:30.415 --> 27:32.581 for . X amount of time . Well , that's 27:32.581 --> 27:34.803 something you can plan off of , right ? 27:34.803 --> 27:37.026 And , uh , or you can look forward to , 27:37.026 --> 27:39.081 right , exactly , yeah , OK , yeah , 27:39.140 --> 27:41.660 exactly . It's not , you know , hey , 27:41.780 --> 27:43.891 you know , it was supposed to be this 27:43.891 --> 27:46.113 long . It's really gonna be this long . 27:46.113 --> 27:48.058 Yeah , you know , you might harm a 27:48.058 --> 27:50.336 little bit , but the certainty is , uh , 27:50.336 --> 27:52.669 it adds a little bit of comfort , right ? 27:52.669 --> 27:54.669 But if I tell you , hey , I'm gonna 27:54.669 --> 27:56.447 extend you . And then your next 27:56.447 --> 27:58.660 question to me is OK , how long and 27:58.660 --> 28:00.882 when , when can I expect to go home and 28:00.882 --> 28:03.104 I thought you don't know as long as the 28:03.104 --> 28:05.216 mission requires , right ? That's the 28:05.216 --> 28:07.729 answer , um , that is a a little 28:07.729 --> 28:09.951 tougher to plan against , uh , both for 28:09.951 --> 28:12.579 families and and deployed members but I , 28:12.630 --> 28:16.569 I will add . That , uh , my mindset 28:16.569 --> 28:18.869 stays the same , right ? We're , we're 28:18.869 --> 28:21.530 there , uh , to provide . 28:22.459 --> 28:26.069 Combat effects in that AOR until 28:26.069 --> 28:28.750 we're until we're done , you know , and 28:28.750 --> 28:30.917 um that's kind of the name of the game 28:30.917 --> 28:33.139 sometimes that's it you know like we we 28:33.139 --> 28:37.109 are trained and um right to 28:37.109 --> 28:41.109 discuss um handling uncertainty , right ? 28:41.150 --> 28:43.949 I mean we're we're gonna uh prepare to 28:43.949 --> 28:46.390 go into a place where you know we're 28:46.390 --> 28:48.780 we're 50% of the vote if we're lucky , 28:48.910 --> 28:51.640 right ? The adversary is going to . Uh , 28:51.650 --> 28:53.709 do things , take actions , make 28:53.709 --> 28:56.770 decisions that are going to affect our 28:56.770 --> 28:59.550 planning , and I think , uh , as 28:59.550 --> 29:01.606 leaders , it's our responsibility to 29:01.606 --> 29:05.489 one acknowledge it , to , um , continue 29:05.489 --> 29:08.339 to move through those uncertain 29:08.339 --> 29:11.280 situations , um , and provide the 29:11.800 --> 29:14.209 effects that , uh , that we advertise . 29:14.750 --> 29:16.972 Looking back , you know , I'm sure that 29:16.972 --> 29:19.194 you have a leadership style that you've 29:19.194 --> 29:21.619 developed over the past 30 years or so , 29:22.109 --> 29:24.276 and it's , it's grown and it's evolved 29:24.276 --> 29:27.219 and it's changed . This has been a very 29:27.219 --> 29:28.886 humbling experience for you , 29:28.886 --> 29:30.886 especially as a leader . How do you 29:30.886 --> 29:32.941 think that your leadership style has 29:32.941 --> 29:35.280 changed from this experience ? Yeah , 29:35.390 --> 29:37.723 it's that's a , that's a great question . 29:37.723 --> 29:40.160 How's my leadership style changed or 29:40.160 --> 29:42.790 grown or evolved ? Yeah , I , I mean , 29:42.800 --> 29:46.400 I , I think , um , understanding , you 29:46.400 --> 29:48.770 know , sort of the biases that that 29:48.780 --> 29:50.947 that I might have in the lenses that I 29:50.947 --> 29:53.113 look through just understanding that , 29:53.113 --> 29:55.510 uh , not everybody's going to view , uh , 29:55.920 --> 29:57.976 situations through my lens , right ? 29:58.040 --> 30:01.050 Being able to , uh , communicate . Uh , 30:01.989 --> 30:04.420 effectively what needs to take place , 30:04.630 --> 30:07.349 right ? And , and , uh , shelving the 30:07.349 --> 30:09.571 fact that I view things a certain way , 30:09.670 --> 30:12.510 um , that , that really is is something 30:12.510 --> 30:15.949 that I had to , um , evolve with as 30:15.949 --> 30:18.380 this situation unfolded out there . So 30:18.380 --> 30:21.390 what I mean by that is . You know , for 30:21.390 --> 30:23.790 me , again , you know , kind of being 30:23.790 --> 30:26.589 raised a marine , I , I , I have a 30:26.589 --> 30:28.811 certain mindset , but you know , that's 30:28.811 --> 30:30.756 going , the way the situations are 30:30.756 --> 30:32.700 landing on everybody is completely 30:32.700 --> 30:34.829 different . So adapting . My 30:34.829 --> 30:38.069 communication , uh , to send an 30:38.069 --> 30:40.750 effective message to get uh the folks 30:40.750 --> 30:43.083 that are being affected to stay focused , 30:43.083 --> 30:45.790 right ? Um , I learned a lot out there 30:45.790 --> 30:49.030 about , um , messaging , you know , and , 30:49.150 --> 30:52.079 and , uh . Communicating to keep 30:52.079 --> 30:54.239 everybody on track , I think , uh . 30:55.069 --> 30:58.979 It's um It can , it can 30:58.979 --> 31:01.510 really be a challenge when things go uh 31:01.510 --> 31:03.732 off nominal or off script , and I think 31:03.732 --> 31:07.359 that's where , um . Uh , having that 31:07.359 --> 31:09.526 experience where , you know , we had a 31:09.526 --> 31:11.748 bunch of unknown that was offered up in 31:11.748 --> 31:14.339 pretty short order . Um , it , it 31:14.339 --> 31:18.310 forced me to , uh , figure out , uh , 31:18.319 --> 31:20.359 how to message effectively to keep 31:20.359 --> 31:23.410 everybody focused on mission . One 31:23.410 --> 31:25.410 thing that also this is just my 31:25.410 --> 31:27.810 perspective working with you for as 31:27.810 --> 31:30.329 long as I've known you now that I think 31:30.329 --> 31:32.800 that you definitely have a talent for 31:33.260 --> 31:35.093 noticing you , I mean , just you 31:35.093 --> 31:37.880 mentioned , you know , your team being 31:37.880 --> 31:40.102 so diverse , you mentioned like some of 31:40.102 --> 31:42.269 them are potato farmers , some of them 31:42.269 --> 31:44.324 are weapons engineers . And I , I've 31:44.324 --> 31:46.269 always thought that you are really 31:46.269 --> 31:48.436 great at noticing abilities and people 31:48.436 --> 31:48.199 that maybe they don't even know they 31:48.199 --> 31:50.032 have in capabilities and kind of 31:50.032 --> 31:52.088 bringing those out and people and or 31:52.088 --> 31:54.088 encouraging those things . And just 31:54.088 --> 31:56.255 speaking for myself , I remember years 31:56.255 --> 31:58.800 ago , um , right after I graduated from 31:58.800 --> 32:01.022 college , you had approached me about a 32:01.022 --> 32:03.022 commissioning opportunity , uh , in 32:03.022 --> 32:06.219 operations up at , uh , the 2:33rd and 32:06.219 --> 32:08.219 I remember like , are you , are you 32:08.219 --> 32:10.386 thinking of the right guy because this 32:10.386 --> 32:12.386 does not like seem like something . 32:12.386 --> 32:14.497 That would be in my wheelhouse at all 32:14.497 --> 32:16.830 and you were insistent that , well , no , 32:16.830 --> 32:16.290 that's like kind of what I'm looking 32:16.290 --> 32:18.512 for is I want people who think a little 32:18.512 --> 32:20.734 bit differently and and approach things 32:20.734 --> 32:22.790 or solve problems in a different way 32:22.790 --> 32:24.957 and and still to this day like I'm not 32:24.957 --> 32:26.910 sure what exactly it was that you 32:27.400 --> 32:29.511 thought that I would have been a good 32:29.511 --> 32:31.680 candidate for that , but you obviously 32:31.680 --> 32:33.680 saw something in me I didn't see in 32:33.680 --> 32:36.300 myself . And even um I was talking to 32:36.300 --> 32:38.530 Master Sergeant Kraus , the maintenance 32:38.530 --> 32:41.050 uh first sergeant here at the 140th , 32:41.339 --> 32:43.450 and I didn't know this , but she said 32:43.450 --> 32:45.339 that , yeah , Colonel Gold was my 32:45.339 --> 32:47.579 recruiter years ago . Um , she had 32:47.579 --> 32:50.219 actually mentioned the uh 2013 floods 32:50.219 --> 32:52.099 when you and I were out um doing 32:52.099 --> 32:54.321 checkpoints and stuff , and he's like , 32:54.321 --> 32:56.432 yeah , she said , yeah , he , uh . He 32:56.432 --> 32:58.599 was manning a checkpoint with me and I 32:58.599 --> 33:00.932 was in the army at the time and he said , 33:00.932 --> 33:00.000 hey , you know , you should think about 33:00.000 --> 33:02.199 the guard and that kind of encouraged 33:02.199 --> 33:04.439 her to bring to to come over . Well 33:04.439 --> 33:06.949 yeah I I certainly appreciate that , uh , 33:07.000 --> 33:09.479 chance . I , I think that uh if you're 33:09.479 --> 33:11.701 gonna be effective as a leader you have 33:11.701 --> 33:13.757 to be able to recognize uh where the 33:13.757 --> 33:15.812 strengths and weaknesses are in your 33:15.812 --> 33:18.119 formation and then , uh , utilizing 33:18.119 --> 33:19.897 those strengths , growing those 33:19.897 --> 33:22.230 strengths and addressing the weaknesses , 33:22.230 --> 33:24.175 right ? And , and , uh . Both like 33:24.175 --> 33:26.175 holistically and then in individual 33:26.175 --> 33:29.369 people . um , I will say that uh . The 33:29.369 --> 33:31.369 Colorado Air National Guard is my 33:31.369 --> 33:35.010 professional family and um I , I 33:35.010 --> 33:38.089 love getting to serve with amazing 33:38.089 --> 33:41.949 people , right ? uh . It's , it's full 33:41.949 --> 33:44.949 of , uh , just like I said , uh . 33:46.000 --> 33:49.079 Tremendously capable individuals and to 33:49.079 --> 33:52.400 that end , I think . As , as , as one 33:53.050 --> 33:55.449 human being , just myself , you know , 33:55.550 --> 33:57.772 I , I have again the road that I walked 33:57.772 --> 34:00.050 in my experience , but the , the , the 34:00.050 --> 34:02.272 collective hole that's out there in the 34:02.272 --> 34:04.829 formations , the , the experience that 34:04.829 --> 34:06.959 all of those airmen have , if you're 34:06.959 --> 34:09.126 solving it , trying to solve a complex 34:09.126 --> 34:11.292 problem , the answer is not gonna come 34:11.292 --> 34:13.403 from me as the commander . The answer 34:13.403 --> 34:15.348 lives out there with that talented 34:15.348 --> 34:18.310 group of airmen in that formation . And 34:18.310 --> 34:21.070 to follow that on as a leader , it's my 34:21.070 --> 34:24.870 job to empower them to create an 34:24.870 --> 34:27.092 environment where they feel comfortable 34:27.179 --> 34:29.401 and empowered enough to say , hey , you 34:29.401 --> 34:31.401 know what , this might work or this 34:31.401 --> 34:33.512 might be the answer to this challenge 34:33.512 --> 34:35.899 or hey , I , I've seen this particular 34:35.899 --> 34:38.510 problem before and here's what worked , 34:38.590 --> 34:40.812 right ? Whether you're fixing a tractor 34:40.812 --> 34:43.050 on a potato farm or you're writing code 34:43.050 --> 34:44.959 and software for a complex weapon 34:44.959 --> 34:47.340 system , all of that stuff lives out 34:47.340 --> 34:49.979 there . Um , and that talent lives out 34:49.979 --> 34:52.312 there in our formation and I think , uh , 34:52.330 --> 34:55.300 as a leader , you got it's my job , uh , 34:55.340 --> 34:58.419 to create the environment in which 34:58.419 --> 35:00.659 people can innovate through complex 35:00.659 --> 35:02.770 problems and , and it's not just me , 35:02.770 --> 35:04.881 right ? It's that's , that's your SEL 35:04.881 --> 35:07.048 that's your , your , your flight chief 35:07.048 --> 35:09.215 that , you know , any , any leadership 35:09.215 --> 35:11.437 role . One recognizing that the talents 35:11.437 --> 35:14.149 out there to empowering people to , uh , 35:14.179 --> 35:16.346 feel comfortable enough to say , hey , 35:16.379 --> 35:18.490 you know , this is how we can be uh a 35:18.490 --> 35:20.323 little bit more effective on the 35:20.323 --> 35:22.601 battlefield or solve problems that are , 35:22.601 --> 35:25.340 are vexing us right now . um , that's 35:25.340 --> 35:27.562 really important to me , you know , and 35:27.562 --> 35:29.673 and that's something that , uh , I've 35:29.673 --> 35:31.784 tried to create since the time we met 35:31.784 --> 35:34.219 years ago , uh , the time I met uh Mass . 35:34.260 --> 35:37.199 Kraus up until now . Awesome . Cool . 35:37.320 --> 35:39.098 Well , that's great . Was there 35:39.098 --> 35:41.264 anything else that you want to leave , 35:41.264 --> 35:43.376 leave us with ? Yeah , I , I like two 35:43.376 --> 35:45.542 things really . One , I'm , I'm very , 35:45.542 --> 35:48.320 uh , thankful that , uh , I've had the 35:48.320 --> 35:50.376 opportunity to share this with you , 35:50.376 --> 35:52.487 but , uh , this experience belongs to 35:52.487 --> 35:55.239 all 17 people that were out there and 35:55.239 --> 35:57.760 I'm just , um , you know , lucky enough 35:57.760 --> 35:59.919 to be able to , to share the , the 35:59.919 --> 36:02.141 story with you , but , uh , all of them 36:02.141 --> 36:04.830 had a tremendous . Uh , impact on me 36:04.830 --> 36:06.997 personally as a leader , as a father , 36:06.997 --> 36:09.163 as a , uh , uh , a husband , all , all 36:09.163 --> 36:11.219 those things , they , they helped me 36:11.219 --> 36:14.959 grow and to , um . The success of that 36:14.959 --> 36:18.280 deployment , it comes on the strength 36:18.280 --> 36:20.639 of their shoulders , you know , so um . 36:21.479 --> 36:25.159 Yeah , tremendous uncertainty , uh , 36:25.560 --> 36:28.280 but it's what we do and , um , they 36:28.280 --> 36:31.239 demonstrated that , uh , just in in 36:31.239 --> 36:35.030 spades , you know , um . Yeah , I , I'm , 36:35.110 --> 36:38.590 I'm thankful for them . I'm . So lucky 36:38.590 --> 36:41.189 to be able to serve with such a capable 36:41.189 --> 36:43.411 group of people to finish up , chance , 36:43.411 --> 36:46.229 I will say , um , you know , uh , I 36:46.229 --> 36:48.340 love sitting down and and and talking 36:48.340 --> 36:50.507 with people and learning from them and 36:50.507 --> 36:52.618 sharing experiences so I'm not a hard 36:52.618 --> 36:54.909 person to find in in the wing and if 36:54.909 --> 36:57.131 anyone want to grab a cup of coffee and 36:57.131 --> 36:59.353 talk about this or anything else , uh , 36:59.353 --> 37:01.409 challenges that they've they've gone 37:01.409 --> 37:03.187 through , I'm always around and 37:03.187 --> 37:05.409 interested to , to hear those things as 37:05.409 --> 37:04.139 well .